On June 24, Emma Ashford appeared on the Chicago Council’s Deep Dish podcast as a guest. Alongside James Goldgeier, visiting scholar at Stanford University, Ashford discussed the war in Ukraine and divergent views on it in Washington.

“If you look at the responses of most people who are realists or restrainers to this war, they’ve been in many ways quite similar to liberal internationalist perspectives,” Ashford observed. “There’s been a fair amount of common response to the notion that Russia shouldn’t be changing borders by force in Europe, that we do have some humanitarian concerns, that US interests are at stake here.”

“That said, I do think there are some big differences now that we are three months into the war. Those differences are starting to become clearer in places where restrainers or realists tend to differ, on the questions of war termination. Are we trying to support Ukraine to maintain a sovereign Ukrainian state or to help Ukraine expel Russia from every inch of its territory?”

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